Talk:Clare Short

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

This page is about a politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. For that reason, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Politics of the United Kingdom Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Mid‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Birmingham

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Birmingham, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Birmingham on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BirminghamWikipedia:WikiProject BirminghamTemplate:WikiProject BirminghamBirmingham articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Furness, Hannah (9 March 2012). "MPs Wikipedia pages 'changed from inside Parliament'". The Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 14 March 2012.

Revert

I reverted this edit on the grounds that it seems to be full of POV assertions that need to be qualified as such (especially naming Short as a "war criminal"). Nevertheless I think it does point out some areas on which this article could be strengthened: the extent to which Short went along with the "New Labour" project, especially with regard to its relationship with the Sun and other right-wing papers; whether her resignation was genuinely principled or a case of "jumping before she was pushed"; and the consequences for her reputation on the left. I'm just not sure how to approach it, or how much of this edit can be resored. Any suggestions? --rbrwr ^± 12:26, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

University

I'm sure Clare Short attended the University of Leeds.

She did - section amended. Whouk (talk) 14:37, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The bit about the suggestion of her position as a Privy Counsellor possibly being revoked needs editing as while the way it was suggested it be revoked might have been unprecedented, Jonathan Aitken and John Stonehouse would have been expelled from The Privy Council if they had not resigned first and quite possibly John Profumo would have too as in all 3 questions it went to credibility - in the case of Jonathan Aitken actually perjury.

Secret Child

Why is there no mention of her secret child in this bio? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulthorgan (talk • contribs) 15:22, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Clark incident

Can anyone remember if Short actually did withdraw the accusation? Gregg 14:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

She didn't and was suspended by the speaker if I recall correctly, although Alan Clark fully agreed with her and his memories of her in the debate was that she had a very nice voice (Alan Clark Diaries)--Lord of the Isles 14:37, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Resigning the Labour Whip

This very much is an ongoing event, I somehow doubt that she is going to be allowed to remain a Labour Party member while refusing as an MP to take the Labour Whip, at the very least her membership is likely to be suspended, of course this changes the parliamentary arithmetic and will have an minor effect on the leadership and deputy leadership election as she won't be able to vote in the MP's section.--Lord of the Isles 14:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was just going to ask about that. I planned to write an article about her on the Norwegian enyclopedia right now and I thought this was a bit strange. I mean, if you are a member of a political party and a Member of Parliament, are you then not automatically a member of that party´s parliamentary group? If you refuse the whip, doesn´t that mean you are withdrawing your membership from that party? --Oddeivind 10:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like it should make sense, but the answer is no - you can be a member of a political party in the same was as any other member of the public but still sit as an independent in Parliament, which is what Clare Short has done. Hobson 10:43, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disciplinary proceedings

I have changed "Disciplinary procedures against her that would possibly expel her from the Labour Party were suspended shortly before the news of her resignation of the Labour whip" to "She had received a written reprimand from Labour's Chief Whip shortly before the news of her resignation of the party whip" as it is not correct that the proceedings were suspended. They were concluded with a decision that she would not be expelled, and receive a written reprimand instead. Hobson 19:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I had misread the date on the article in the Guardian as 20 September 2006 and have only just realised this on looking at it again.--Lord of the Isles 19:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Opposition to the arms trade

I added Clare's part in the Ottawa Convention, using Mark Thomas' book about the arms trade as a source. He actually mentions her several times, but Thomas is a comedian-turned-activist, so I daren't refer to him too often. Still, he quotes her as saying, "every British minister who visits India is briefed to [advertise] Hawks... It used to get into my briefing, these kind of things, but I never did it. I'm not doing it."

I'll have a poke around to find other sources, to expand the DfID section to include her dislike of the arms trade. Any other books/articles? .--User:Wozocoxonoy 19:06, 30th December 2006 (GMT)

Birmingham, Warwickshire

Birmingham is not in Warwickshire, it is in the county of the West Midlands. However, the West Midlands county did not exist in 1946 when Short was born and (I assume at least) Birmingham was part of Warwickshire then. So is it correct to say "Clare Short was born in Birmingham, Warwickshire, England in 1946"? I don't know what the answer is, but it does look odd as it stands now.Hobson 01:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People of Irish descent in Great Britain

Hi. I removed this category from the article and another editor has replaced it. Rather than edit war, I propose discussing here. I would need to see proper sources stating that Short's ethnicity is considered significant to her notability before I'd be happy to include this category here. --John (talk) 21:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

John, please stop being a pedant. Just do a quick google search for Clare Short Ireland, and you'll find articles such as this BBC story. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! A reliable source. That didn't kill you, did it? Do you want to add it to the article or shall I? --John (talk) 02:17, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

John, of course it didn't kill me. But you removed the category on the grounds that it was "unverifiable", which is demonstrably untrue. Now that you can see how to find a reference, you should go and do the same for the dozens of other articles you removed from Category:People of Irish descent in Great Britain. While you are fixing this one, you could also use this ref. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:42, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, nice reference. Of course I'll add them to this article for you. I don't intend to research the supposed Irish antecedents of the likes of Gary Walsh either. But that's a bit off-topic for here, don't you think? Better at Category talk:People of Irish descent in Great Britain. See you there. --John (talk) 04:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cessation of role as MP

Short ceased to be an MP when parliament was dissolved on 12 April 2010; not at the subsequent election on 6 May. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 00:46, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Negative?

It seems to me that Clare Short suffers in this article for want of a white knight or champion, such as seem to lie in wait for over-bold editors of other articles about more fortunate persons.

I think she did an excellent job as Overseas Development secretary, and i don't think i am alone in that. Among the dismal, self-seeking New Labour crowd, she stood out as a politician of integrity.

86.165.98.71 (talk) 20:03, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Attributing claims

The reason the "apartheid" and "global warming" claims should be attributed to Daniel Schwammenthal is that as far as I can tell every source that attributes it at all attributes it to Daniel Schwammenthal. Schwammenthal was at the conference and this was his report; other people copied (which is obvious anyway since they use the same two partial sentences chosen from Short's speech). Anthony Julius cites Schwammenthal directly. I can't get to that page of Wistrich's book; NMMNG, who does Wistrich cite? Zero^talk 02:59, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Clare Short. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060721091459/http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1997/08/25/wmon25.html to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1997/08/25/wmon25.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 04:48, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Archive appears legit. Only in death does duty end (talk) 16:30, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Clare Short. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:22, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Clare Short. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:19, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Clare Short. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for http://news.independent.co.uk/people/pandora/article1523109.ece
Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19970630/ai_n14110463
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=%2Farchive%2F1997%2F08%2F25%2Fwmon25.html
Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/vo020422/text/20422w07
Added {{dead link}} tag to http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/birminghampost/news/tm_method%3Dfull%26objectid%3D17918657%26siteid%3D50002-name_page.html
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081023133249/http://www.birminghampost.net/tags/clare-short/ to http://www.birminghampost.net/tags/clare-short/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:04, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Clare Short. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:54, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Resignation as a protest against the Iraq War of 2003

The article on Tony Blair used to say that Tony Blair's popularity waned after the Iraq War of 2003. In the same way, should this article say that Clare Short probably went up in a lot of people's estimation after resigning from the Cabinet as a protest against this war? Rollo August (talk) 10:19, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How the general public viewed her after her resignation from Blair's cabinet is not really a topic suitable for Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a survey based on opinion polls of how the U.K. public estimates political figures. YTKJ (talk) 15:11, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]